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This week in Bitcoin. Rate cuts, Ethereum, Defi, altcoins, IRS, negative rates, Libra

This week in Bitcoin 9202019 Rate cuts, Ethereum, Defi, altcoins, IRS, negative rates, Libra Hello everyone this is adam meister the bitcoinmeister the disrupt meister welcome to this week in bitcoin today is September the 20th 2019 strong can be a unique piece now youre off the Bitcoin unconfessed a double one Bitcoin equals one Bitcoin affected by selling best guest in the space dont FOMO on all coins oh yeah were gonna talk about that but yeah we got the best guest based in the space here we got guy Swann we got Christian who I just saw in person and weve got Jeff Andrew here baby and yeah weve got three guys on the show again so con that like button this we get Bitcoin here we are lets just jump into the crypto side of things were gonna get into the big financial markets in a second but I Im gonna throw Im gonna toss it in the Christian here I was gonna start with Jeff and Im gonna start a Christian Christian is it all season again youve been traveling around the world have people trying to Punk you up on alts because all its have pumped like the last four days whats up with that Christian I dont think its arts all season and actually think everything was probably gonna go down soon but not financial advice I dont know like people people are going to try to pump this stuff up its not all season so prolonged like you know gains just a few days I dont I dont buy it alright alright youre not youre not pumped on the alts youre not faux mowing on all its good thats one of my sayings okay guys Juan what have you heard on the streets yes so I think I mean just like Christian said four day is that thing thats a stretch like every once in a while you go through particularly if its been flat for a while youre gonna have those spikes up now Im not because the hype cycle was so ridiculous in 2017 Im not even leaving it completely out of the realm of possibility that there is another alt it doesnt make any sense I didnt think the first one made any sense so but I dont think it will look like it did last time I dont think it will be a rising tide raises all you know ships or whatever like I dont think I dont know this is not it this is just there are so many people that I know that I have talked to were like looking desperately for a Avenue like Id like an opportunity to get out the any kind of like sustained growth is just going to be met with people so happy that they can finally dump that I dont I think were a long way from anything on that front were gonna talk about this more later in the show but I think its just a symptom of you know when interest rates get too low its the riskiest investments that sometimes in the shortterm see the money for in because when nothing is you know generating any yield those dollars have to go somewhere so a lot of times its the sketchiest riskiest investments in a very short term which is a category in which Id put all clients that see the biggest benefit so yeah lets talk about that lets talk about the financial markets interest rates were just cut what is what is going on here Jeff well I mean its its interesting in a lot of different ways you know I think this is the first time that I can remember in my life where our politicians have been pretty open about the fact that the stock market is just easily manipulable by the central bank you know one of the things Ive talked about a lot over time various outlets is I dont think that our stock market actually conveys meaningful price information anymore at all because I think its just so beholden to you know central bank action that were just really not getting any meaningful you know price data price communication by the market at all so I think you know whats happened is weve seen the president just sort of blatantly admit this and put pressure on the central bank to keep rates low because it helps shortterm political force and that Im not even being critical of that action because if youre if youre in the current system that we have today which is the system that they all have to operate in all of our politicians youd be stupid to do that I mean hes basically just the first guy thats been smart enough to take that sort of action so you know I think thats thats my basic perspective on whats going on here at least on the US level now your Europe is talking negative rates doing negative rates are we gonna see negative rates in the United States are we is it eventually gonna spill into the consumer market Co banks charge negative rates on savings accounts its my guess would be theres a definite possibility that we could see it in retail markets but usually most big proponents of negative interest rates and believe it or not there are a lot of people who not only say we shouldnt be afraid of negative interest rates but that there are a really good elegant solution to a lot of problems usually when those type of people make proposals there is some sort of a de minimis cutoff that eliminates most retail accounts from the negative rate so for its something like you know it might even be something like the FDIC deposit limit where the first 250, 000 of deposits are not subject to negative rates youll probably see the negative rates at least for a long time only applied to very large deposits which mostly are gonna end up being corporate you know bank deposits all right all right very good there were something else I was going to ask about the negative rate sister wink so yeah your bizarreo whats it mean for Bitcoin what what do you see all of this thats going on in the larger market whats it whats it mean for Bitcoin I mean everythings good for Bitcoin in the long term in seriousness and the long term it is good for a good coin right because its all these things are acceleration ax stand on some level the current system has to collapse its too strong of a word but it has to have some use a weird weird way to phrase this there has to be some level of crisis to the current system for Bitcoin to really start to take off and a lot of us including myself hope that that isnt like a complete and total collapse but regardless of how strong that sort of negative impact to our current financial system needs to be acceleration is amiss moves us further in that direction so I think you know certainly in the long term this is good for Bitcoin in the short term we still dont know whether investors in general sort of the broad scope of investors see the value proposition of Bitcoin yet well enough to understand that bitcoin is a hedge against these issues and theres still a lot of investors that therefore may still see Bitcoin as a risk on asset and therefore in the short term if there is you know a shaking shaking of confidence in the market there is certainly a possibility that the coin could actually have shortterm price declines we just dont know yet whether the market at large has really started to no longer view Bitcoin as a risk or an asset yet but in the long term definitely good all right everyone found that like button guys Swan you I think youve retweeted this guess someone retweeting this the Fed will print an additional 75 billion dollars to correct the lending market thats 129 billion injected as an emergency within only a day they will apprentice much as the entire market cap of Bitcoin now that might some people argue about the entire numbers behind that but I get the point the Fed is playing with tremendous numbers here that a that are similar to what bitcoin is worth right now so guys what is your take on all this yeah just the fact that like in a comparison of market size its its pretty extraordinary to think that like thats the amount of money just in an overnight like a cuz I think the overnight interest rates like shot up to like 5 or something like that I even saw some money say was it 10 yeah very briefly shut up as high as 10 and they we still I started to catch off me but we still actually dont know why theres no like official explanation its told why there was that dry up and see thats so thats so crazy though dude it just shows how unbelievably fragile everything is like its sitting on like the thinnest of ice with cracks everywhere and theyre just having to constantly throw money to smother the fire and obviously you know you end up putting more fuel on it down the road and just like bandra said that um like you cant theres no way that it doesnt eventually go negative because theres no way out except a massive corrections I dont see how it doesnt reach that point even if its you know the u.s.

This week in Bitcoin. Rate cuts, Ethereum, Defi, altcoins, IRS, negative rates, Libra

is one of the last ones to get there um and weve already got what was it I think I think it was like 15 some odd trillion dollars of negative yielding like bonds and stuff now I mean just like the whole the whole space the fact that this is being normalized hes absolutely insane that were were totally just accepting and pretending its completely legitimate to have someone have the ability to consume to consume scarce resources and get paid to do so like thats thats absolutely nuts like we could not have it more backwards and while I think like Bitcoin is I like you said still seen as a really risky asset I think in the long term its just going to be this obvious elephant in the room for everything that they try to do for like just just bringing up that question like why is there no yield some like everywhere why do we have to constantly dump all of our money into these crappy nonsensical projects like like Jeff was talking about and like over inflate all this stuff cuz people are so desperate for yield theyre desperate for like a real place to park their money so I dont know its crazy discovered Bitcoin yet Im glad weve got the insider information here I think the Fed will be able to keep all not doing this weve got a lot of blind people out there just be like happy with whatever they do I think but at least we know the right direction to go in Christian whats whats up with you and this whole situation so add onto what guy was sitting and how Im saying the negative yields are and especially in the bond market thats kind of where its happening first and Ive been thinking about this and when I was in Riga talking to a lot of people about this and it this idea kind of came into my head that the bond market is literally turning into a Ponzi scheme the only way its profitable if theres negative yields on the bond which means that you pay them to buy the bond is if youre expecting the interest rates to go further down so that way youre negative bond is less negative yielding than the newer ones and therefore it will appreciate that way you could sell it so its literally a Ponzi scheme waiting waiting for you know yields to go lower and for you to dump your negative yields on you know whoever the present buyer is so I mean thats pretty crazy and I think that as Bitcoin gains its windy it weve already already seeing it now that its actually being injected into the conversation on like serious financial investing podcast pretty much on the news every day on CNBC and other things were seeing books all the time so I think we are experiencing people becoming aware of this and it becoming very obvious and I would not be surprised in in the next few years if people seriously gets their Bitcoin did you guys see Travis clean on CNN dice that yeah I saw I saw some 120 watch it actually whatd he say I he literally did one of the most succinct like two and a half or three minute explanation of Bitcoin as hard money essentially insurance on all of this negative yielding like interest and the huge debt imbalance that we have to deal with he hid like a lot of the like name like Austrian ideas and the fact that it was immutable I mean it was it was the it was an incredibly succinct like almost Bitcoin maximalist narrative in an in an open discussion on CNN that I dont know I just just didnt expect to see it even when I see it on like CNBC its usually buried under a lot of layers of ignorance but his level of having discovered it for himself just really surprised me and in the fact that it was immediately accepted as a legitimate argument like as a real position which I think anything like like six six years ago it would have just gotten laughed out of the room like like the whole perspective on all this is changing because I think theres this is this thing in the back of a lot of peoples minds its like something is so broken here like it cant work like this and so the discussion is getting wider and Bitcoin is making its way into the edges of all of these discussions and it just it blows my mind what that was what do you think about CNN having this crypto crazy week they had because five days in a row they had cryptocurrency people on but like the guy you spoke up this is this was a new thing youre talking you know off air you you brought up how younger people that they think differently about economics well now older people are getting exposed to Bitcoin also do you do any any thoughts that they would they were actually talking about this on CNN which is kind of crazy if you wouldve told me four years ago thats funny I didnt know about like seeing in Bitcoin week that if I see something on CNN its because somebody shared it on twitter i reaiiy dont have any news but uh yeah thats thats thats crazy and particularly like with the younger generations theres theres a lot like bitcoin magazine actually just had article about a pax full survey and somebody else doing a survey and I think as like particularly as we get there there are ten eleven year old kids right now they have never lived in a world without Bitcoin and as that extends forward like it doesnt matter what the hired like the earlier generations older generations actually get in terms of education because those generations in ten years when those kid theyre 20 years old theyre its not even gonna be a question in fact in the the survey they talked about it was like they generally would like like Jens ears and Millennials um had an incredibly high proportion of people that are totally open to investing in Bitcoin new currencies and it was actually getting up to similar percentages I think it was like like low twenties or something whereas the avenues were like in the 30s like 33 37 like depending on what they were asking about um but uh but that its getting a comparable essentially I dont know the a comparable perception from the from the younger generations and thats always going to be on the table and I think the narrative is gonna completely change when there are people getting into that age group where theyre the ones dominating the next run of investments when theyre the ones deciding what the next big companies are gonna be and Bitcoin has just always been there Bitcoin is just obvious as a contender and it might be a bunch of 13 14 15 yearolds who cant get a bank account but they theyre gonna buy stuff online like so something is going to fill that need somewhere and Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies really the only Avenue for a lot of them so I think I dont know theres gonna be a hell of a foundation in five or six years yeah a major move into the mainstream I like it 2028 having strong hand people those 10 year old today it wont be buying gold in 2028 theyll be talking about that 2028 having found that like button alright I want to go back to jet real quick to a previous subject matter and you can if you have something else we want to bring up that youve been meaning to say you say but my question is what did happen the other night when they had to inject that money into uh what was what happened for reasons that you know us being average slobs in finance terms well never know probably theres a lot of theories about this kind of thing there theres an issue where banks tend to lend to each other overnight so you know the whole financial system essentially relies upon this and Im just giving you my understanding of what happened as best I know Ill go into what we dont know but these banks all have to lend overnight and to each other and typically a part of that are the fact that US Treasury dealers when they purchase Treasuries from the federal government they dont have necessarily all the cash on hand to do that nor do they need it in their mind because they turn around and resell those Treasuries theyre a dealer in this case so theyre also borrowing you know within this sort of market very very short term funds so these are these are like loans that are like eight or twelve hours were talking about here so these are typically very very very low interest loans among very very very credit worthy parties right so like in other words if theres any sort of loan should bear a very low rate of interest this is it cuz its all giant institutions that all know each other are lending to each other over very very short timeframes and for reasons that I have not yet heard a great explanation there was just a shortage of lenders the other night and as a result because there was such a shortage of lenders the interest rate shot up to insane levels and the Federal Reserve had to step in and sort of act as that lender of last resort sort of a bizarre situation and as I said as to why specifically a couple nights ago this happened I have not heard you know I dont work in the finance industry so I dont have any insider information and I havent heard anything all that persuasive as to why this happened it remains a mystery but I do thank you for clarifying NASA everyone does kind of this is theres all sorts of rumors going on and stuff so we dont exactly know but there you go okay moving back into the land of a pure crypto here I want to ask the Christians that youve been traveling the world you might have a opinion on this tweet by Vinny Lang ham defy is clearly go to be the catalytic wave for the next phase of the crypto evolution so is defy the big catalyst of the next of the next phase of the crypto evolution whats up with this defy Ive been hearing a lot about this lately Wow so before I answer that question I kind of wanted to add on to what Jeff was saying and he said there wasnt really an explanation but I think that this is a great example of just how fragile the current system is like any small thing could happen and then the Fed has to step in so you know the system currently is just kind of built on on sand and you know the house is gonna fall at some point and speaking of being built on sand that kind of seems what deep is built on this well I do a podcast with a big Syrian person David Hoffman at restless state podcast called POV crypto but essentially its the Bitcoin burst etherium podcast and defy might be the most overly pump thing you can imagine if anything the only thing aetherium is being used for is a Ponzi scheme and tether and tether is being used to buy Bitcoin so eep is only strictly being used to trade Bitcoin that is the only use case for eath if you extrapolate that out defy has a tiny tiny amount of volume and usage on aetherium and its quickly becoming extremely expensive for all the etherium enthusiasts to play on defy because tether is increasing the gas fees so high so were seeing that each one is having all of these issues and that you know tether and other kind of like centralized bad actors quoteunquote are dumping their usage onto the etherium block space and really congesting aetherium and making it difficult for these deep I apps to act in terms of Vinnys comments then he says shit like this all the time so like I dont even know how to respond like this is not the first time he said something very bullish about some other altcoin thing it seems like hes always going with whatever the trend is and thats probably why a lot people consider him a counter indicator so I dont know personally I think Vinny is probably smart and malicious aka hes a scammer and hes just trying to dump his bags but you could also consider him incompetent just depends on your perspective well couldnt we just didnt hell also say that Civic before he kind of like just stopped saying or talking about it at all because you know it lost people millions and millions of dollars was going to revolutionize identity like that was the most garbage coin ever hes still hes still talking about the UH I mean its just things Civic is this thing hes still talking about the identity aspect of it a lot did Christian youre big youre bold there man hes right down the road for you man you got your good running to it I mean he was at the event we were at all right d4 so wait wait lets since we had a guy chime in there what is up with the UH what is up with define in your mind then I dont know there might be something there in just like a new use case for and or like kind of a new business model in an old industry like just in the idea of finance and expanding a little bit but in the context of like using a theory m or like I dont know Im really skeptical it sounds like I dont know enough about it really to say anything all I all I hear is kind of the hype around it but it just sounds like it just sounds like the old narrative has died and its not working for them anymore so like we got it we got a grab onto the next one thats gonna you know bring that money in so until I see something real Im not its just its just noise to me that I think its actually really simple to see why defy doesnt work lending right is based on trust the entire foundation of lending is you trust the per you lend the money to to pay you back and theres different ways you can do that either because you have a personal relationship with the borrower or because youve evaluated their trustful their trustworthiness which is basically what we call credit you know someones credit score in a retail environment through some other subjective means so it doesnt make sense to take something where the whole foundation of this activity is trust and try to move it to a decentralized trustless model thats crazy youre its just not what a decentralized trustless model is built for all right theres theres your aetherium a segment of the show this week guys hey Im giving you the news I mean being here in Israel this this past week was blockchain week and theres a lot I mean there are a lot of people that believe in a theory and there are a lot of people building on it I will see say this so we will will have to see how this all how this all turns out something is going to happen its its either gonna work or its gonna be a major fail and a lot of people really disappointed I dont know but yeah Vinnys talking some thats a big claim on his part there what he just said its gonna be the catalyst of the next part of the crypto revolution it doesnt mean with we shall see it will be I mean Ive got my popcorn and I got my Bitcoin because yeah thats thats what I Im just Im watchin it got nothing I dont have a horse in the etherium race man thats thats why bitcoin is the next Bitcoin and we shall see about the future of a theory Im here okay so moving on to what are some other matters here that I have written down Kristen you talked about well Chris youve been youve been traveling around the world here what has this week brought you in terms of and just just meeting so many people I mean where have you been yes so I actually recently saw both both guy and Jeff here in Dallas and in in San Francisco so since pickle in 2019 this past June Ive had the opportunity and privilege to go to a pretty much every Bitcoin conference so far Im done now but I recently went to Baltic honeybadger in Riga as well as scaling Bitcoin where I saw Adam in Tel Aviv so its been an epic ride and I cant believe I get paid to do this so it was definitely very fun and thank you to Bitcoin Magazine for making it possible but you know really just been seeing a ton of them amazing people a lot of great speakers Riga I really really enjoyed just the vibe as well as you know how many great people were getting on stage and talking so you know could not say hey you know better things about Baltic honey badgers really fantastic and in general bitcoiners are just amazing so I always enjoy hanging out with bitcoiners and its a great way to spend a weekend so I highly recommend going to to a legitimate Bitcoin event anytime theyre always amazing whether its big or small alright so theres a positive note now were gonna get into it with Jeff about something that some people dont think is very positive Jeff is a hes an accountant hes a lot of things so since I had won the show why not ask him about the IRS situation that everybody likes to ask me now again now the letters were sent out weeks ago now but Jeff can you give us an update on that situation yeah you know quick disclaimer Im an attorney a tax attorney and a CPA but Im not any of your tax attorney or CPA hey so consult with your own tax advisor that said if you got one of these letters that came in the mail from the IRS a few weeks back just one thing I always tell everyone is not to freak out about it everyone whose name popped up in McKoy based John Doe subpoena got one of these and these are part of a broader category of notices that we take in the industry tend to refer to as IRS soft notices and what a soft notice means its not a notice that you per se have to respond to its sort of the IRS just sending you a letter saying hey you may owe some additional tax here maybe you didnt claim this stuff take a look back at your return and see if you did it right if you didnt file an amendment if you did everything right you dont have to do anything and thats why its a soft notice it doesnt necessarily require a response in fact most the time it doesnt require a response and in fact receiving it doesnt put you on any sort of a special list of particularly suspicious people it just means youre someone that may perhaps have to have a higher chance than normal of needing to go back take a look in a menu return so if you got one of these notices go back look at the return see if you claimed your stuff if you didnt contact your tax advisor or file an amendment no big deal all right guy I know you wanted to mention that Edward Snowden yeah I just uh I was curious to get everybody elses opinion illness to be honest because hes his a nubuck permanent record is excuse me its coming out and its a Mac millon Macmillan about publishing or whatnot and um supposedly he has a like his nondisclosure and stuff agreements with both the CIA and the NSA um well obviously hes been violating it since since anybody knew who the name Snowden was um but now theyre theyre going after and trying to sue him over the rights to the book because of the or sue him over any ability to like make profit from this as a violation of the nondisclosure agreement um just because theyre supposed to hes supposed to send all information to the CIA and the NSA so that they can mark out anything that hes not supposed when like like Snowdens gonna do that but uh its just a really interesting dynamic and supposedly a part as part of the agreement hes not allowed to make royalties off of anything like anything where he talks about like the CIA or NSA even if its like fiction that supposedly hes like like permanently for the rest of his life hes just not able to royalties off of that so I dont I dont know it sounds like theyre gonna be going after the publisher rather than snowden and then everybody on Twitters like set up a BTC pay server well bhai your book under the table like Id love to Id love to get a copy so its funny it may very well it may very well be real one of those things where it just proves the use case of Bitcoin did like it kind of laughing in the face of like oh yeah youre gonna control the market well were just gonna print it ourselves and ship it out and everybodys gonna use Bitcoin so I just think its a really funny dynamic yeah I mean I think if you guys want I can give a little background on the legal reasons why theyre going after the publisher and what the attack vectors are here so the issue would be you know Bitcoin or no Bitcoin Snowdens in Russia Russias probably not going to enforce a u.s. judgment against him so their only angle to try and get at these proceeds is to you know take action against the publisher the publisher either I dont I dont know the publishers to the cleese headquartered in the United States whether theyre headquartered in the US where they have offices in the US or whatever the court system of the United States is going to have jurisdiction over the publisher so thats why you would go after the the publisher in this case so even if you were to start accepting Bitcoin for the books it really wouldnt matter because the publisher would still be subject to the US courts and the government could get paid that way really the thing is he would have to start from a legal perspective selling the book directly without the publishers involvement to really get this off because then you know hes in Russia so they cant come knock down his door and you know hold him in jail for contempt of court and then he and the publisher you know theyre not involved so they wouldnt be an attack vector either so thats really what you know the issue is going to be in terms of the royalties and the financial end of this you know for instance if he was accepting Fiat but selling without a public he had been selling in Fiat even if he didnt have a publisher in the US and was selling directly to the consumer the issue would be that the u.s.

This week in Bitcoin. Rate cuts, Ethereum, Defi, altcoins, IRS, negative rates, Libra

court system would still have jurisdiction over visa master car discover American Express or even if he wasnt taking credit cards and he was just accepting you know dollars over a CH or something whatever banking came at rail was transmitting in the funds the u.s. court system would easily get jurisdiction over and yet to be able to stop those payments so in order to sell directly to the consumer in this situation he both have to not have the publisher involved and be selling essentially with Bitcoin directly to the consumer alright thank you for that clarification Kristen do you have any thoughts on me edward snowdens it could be expected and excited to see what happens next excited to see if he goes hard on to Bitcoin and cryptocurrency and continues trying to sell the book but yeah popcorn and just waiting I just feel like you know theres just dominoes have effects happening and you know things are gonna continue going in bitcoins way awesome Im Jeff I want to before the show you talk about the craziness over at we work there IPO and its how its related to the crazy financial situation of the world today to talk about that song we work being a unicorn is really the same phenomenon as an altcoin pump right I mean where when yields get low dollars have to chase some crazy investments just to maintain their value or grow and I think we works a good example of this you have a company that has all these insanely wacky stories about how its managed like it just came out this week that the CEOs wife if she would talk to you and you were an employee and she got a bad vibe the CEO would fire you even after a fiveminute conversation or just a seemingly innocent conversation and just other bizarre things about the management team trafficking drugs interstate or internationally in their Jets I mean they were using it for recreational use not for resale but still thats obviously a major felony on you know on a company jet things like that just an example of you know just like all coins pumping yields go down because the those investments have to find somewhere where they can get some yield if the same thing with these companies youll see unicorns get made that seemingly have no business at all being unicorns ouch all right guys you wanted to bring up you want to bring up the youth again you had something to say yeah yes so really right along those same lines with the whole we work in the I think is a great analogy to say that its a lot of these like crap stocks that are um like having huge explosive like IPOs and stock valuations that make no sense whatever whatsoever is really very analogous to the whole altcoin bubble and its people again like looking for yield and a in a literally a global market that is nonexistent of it like because our imbalances are so bad but in conjunction with that and then youve got these things like the financial cracks I did just an overnight lending it takes the takes the interest rate from 2 to 10 in a matter of hours small move thats a huge move in the interest rate in a matter of hours so were getting an insane level of volatility because its obvious that were sitting on cracks in our financial system and that weve built all this on top of sand so traditional assets that have seemed safe and secure and slowmoving for ages and the stock market in general is going to get more and more volatile as we move into the deeper and core sort of the back end of these imbalances starting to play themselves out and with the paxville survey on with the Bitcoin magazine article they talked about what were the biggest hindrances for the younger generations for the Millennials for the Jin Zs for investing in those versus traditional assets and the top concerns actually were not like education or like understanding it which is probably just a its probably just a result of ignorance not the fact that they dont its probably just they dont think they need to understand it now do they actually get it but thats actually a indication that they just see it as like a part of the market so its not really important but so that was like a 14 but in the 30 range their biggest concerns were volatility and lack of trust and when you starts to introduce a lack of trust into the traditional supposedly safe markets and then at the same time we have this incredible underlying like gonna sneak up on you at any moment volatility in the safe traditional markets well Bitcoin doesnt look a whole lot different except for the fact that its going up and has lots of yields so I think the that narrative is going to shift a lot when the safe havens look just as risky as all the alternatives so I dont know I just thought it was funny that those two big concerns were the reason they supposedly invest in traditional markets when those two big concerns are literally what is falling apart in the traditional markets I hope they the 20 smart ones will at least I mean some people just blindly do with you know their parents did or what they think is the right thing all right Christian I want to ask you about I I think Ill ask everyone about this but you probably heard their necks solid X they withdrew their ETF application yeah yeah yeah thats thats whats going on is that a big deal Christian so I think that both Jeff and guy probably are better to ask this question to but generally speaking from my understanding a couple weeks ago they had announced that theyre gonna create a similar product to gbtc which is what a digital currency group does and that is a product that you a lot of people can get on like fidelity or something like that and its not an ETF but some other form of investable Bitcoin product it usually has a premium so I think that because they announce that theyre doing that kind of makes sense that once again theyre gonna pull this thing back it seems like this is kind of political like this process seems very political instead of in objective process so I dont really know exactly you know what all of this means and how theyre trying to play this game it seems like Vanek is our friend and they are friends at Bitcoin and I like what Kapur says on Twitter so Im you know I think that theyre doing their best to bring this product to the market so well see you know how and when its gonna happen it seems like theres a lot of demand for it so yeah wed love to hear what Jeff and guy want to say I mean that was a good take on the situation yeah Jeff what do you what do you have to say so yeah I agree Christians mostly on point theyre absolutely van X product the way I understand it is a little bit different from GPT see all of their structurally pretty much the same when I say different just different in their target market so gbtc is a sort of a closedend fund which Christian says means it actually typically trades at a premium to just holding Bitcoin yourself but the reason the primary driver a gbtc adoption is because its available on platforms like fidelity retail investors can buy it easily without having to understand Bitcoin and it also means they can buy it on those platforms within the context of an IRA or 401k or other retirement account very briefly a bit of shameless selfpromotion for myself I offer a product where you can buy Bitcoin in your IRA or other retirement account hold the keys yourself not have to deal with gbtc and not pay a premium so hit me up on Twitter if that sounds good to you moving on to the van eck situation van x products the target market is a little bit different in that its only going to be available to institutions so van X current product even if you have even if you want to buy into it its going to be limited to large institutions so its a different target and those institutions it really does make sense for them because they typically under their own regulations would be allowed oftentimes to custody their own Bitcoin that would be too high of a liability for them so for those sorts of organizations I think the Vanek product that they are in fact coming out with makes sense its notable to keep in mind that even when van X ETF product was the application was still pending before they would Druitt the van eck ETF was not a retail ETF they were going to set the share price high enough such that it would only be available to large institutions so well in that respect theres really no change they their approach and I dont know anybody have an act but what their approach seems to be from all the public information that I have is that they first really want to nail this sort of thing down as an institutional product before they even think about moving in a retail investor direction all right but now ETF talk through social media Bitcoin social media its been so huge over the last two years I say were just a day closer to someone finally getting this thing off the getting a real ETF off the ground Christian says it is political I agree I mean theres a lot theres a lot of politics behind this do you see so pulling this off in 2020 I dont think the ETF actually matters at the retail level because I think before an ETF gets approved Ameritrade and or fidelity are just gonna offer direct custody of Bitcoin and their normal everyday you know discount brokerage accounts theyre both working on it so that kind of almost makes an etf move I mean if fidelity and Ameritrade do that its gonna really lower the market for an ETF right because a lot of people would just get in and out of Bitcoin even if they dont want to hold their own keys using you know whats fidelity in a meritorious count brokers would follow so I think its more likely that were gonna see something like that before we see an ETF just because it wont require as rigorous of you know compliance issues guys one yeah I was that was that was my thought on the whole thing is that I think it was a really good like height thing that everybody got super excited about and but really the whole whole that whole period has just died down and its now kind of old news like I didnt even know about it until you were just talking about it and it looks like back is still moving forward on fidelity Ive been like trying to stay up to date because they put doing Ive been really surprised at how like technically proficient and health thorough they are and their understanding a bit coining like what cryptocurrencies are actually used for and Bitcoin is such a versatile asset being programmable and with all these like shared custody well like systems and the shared key stuff that is become more moral a norm in like all my main wallets right and our all multi SIGs except for SATs app which talks to a multi sig and so its like it really is the game is changing really quick and I think I think if it takes another year for an ETF to come out well have alternatives that are better and more direct to the point that the market wont care um just like he said youll have custody with fidelity and Ameritrade and every major one thats worth their salt that it just wont I just wont matter youll have so many avenues that its not important itll be a moot point like Jeff said okay well we have reached the end here of this show but everyone I want to give everybody a chance to give their conclusionary remarks bring up any stories they didnt they wanted to bring up again all these guys are linked to below theyre their Twitters so you can investigate them DM them and talk to them well start with Christian whats whats up man anything that got left out and you wanted to bring up anything San Francisco hows Libra down Adam first of all thanks a lot for having me on the show you always get the best panel together for Friday so honored to be included yet again in terms of Libra I think that theyre showing why decentralisation because it seems like every government is targeting them not much to say there except for a nice case study and lastly San Francisco is beautiful happy to be back and I hope to stay put for a little bit but I think I hate everything I need to say I think Adam gives the best advice strong hands longterm thinking by the dip all right town that like button people longterm thinking the full gratification alright Jeff whats up any thoughts I didnt ask you about Libra so I asked you about Libra too uh well all right so before I get into that I one thing I do want to mention that didnt come up so as I mentioned before my day job is a product where you can hold Bitcoin in your IRA and holds your own keys no markup but Im also involved as a volunteer in the BTC Pei server project both as developer of plugins and the Python library for BTC pay and also on BTC pay sort of newest project which is the BTC pay foundation I dont know if any of you guys have gotten a chance to hear about that but thats a way for businesses that rely on Bitcoin can actually provide sponsorship to the BTC pay server development team which really really helps keeping BTC pay server as a robust merchants solution and Im a reversed a robust noncustodial solution for accepting Bitcoin its really important to keep in mind a lot of these developers that work on BTC pay not me my contributions to BTC pay are pretty small but a lot of these other guys work either fulltime or nearly fulltime BTC PI server and until now I havent been able to make any money off of it all its been entirely volunteer so with the foundation this gives away for businesses and we really want to thank of course Square as the first business that made a grant to the BTC pay foundation can show their support for BTC pay server and then that money ends up going to the developers that really makes or what make BTC pay great so I really would have been remiss if I didnt mention that before we closed here for the day to go on Libra libras dead I think its pretty obvious the the European Union is not gonna allow it in the EU and I think thats going to effectively you know for the most part be the end of it unless they launched it on a much smaller scale only in developing nations they could try and do something like that but even that would be difficult and would be a maybe not the opportunity not nearly as ambitious and opportunity as they were seeking Wow well I had heard that about we project a very very interesting we will go to God you get the last word man yeah that was actually just read the blog like yesterday about the square crypto um like grant so BTC b7 that was really awesome at the had gotten forgotten that you were actually involved in that um but thats really cool Ive been Ive been trying to trying to follow that more closely and I still I still have not set up my own BTC PI server I feel like a failure as a Bitcoin maximalist but uh yeah I just direct people to the show um if if you want to hear like Im coming up on 300 quick reads now for like Bitcoin articles and like essays and papers all around the space like to make audio book versions for them and I finally the library has gotten so big now that Ive been going back and being like I need a refresher on like some old lightning stuff or like topics around like energy energy conservation or the cost of energy and proof of work and stuff so I will go back and I cant remember you know 300 I mean how many hundreds maybe even a thousand hours worth of content now so Ive been going back and listening myself for the first time in the last couple of weeks and its been kind of funny but yeah thats the the crypto economy podcast and I also I will gladly accept recommendations I I love it when somebody finds an article that I didnt know about so I can read cuz I read all all the Bitcoin things and I just I just want to have I want to have the best collection out there unmanageable so yeah just direct people there yeah man you are definitely in motion is a very original idea that you have that you just read the articles you read it and people can look as a lot of people cant they cant breathe anymore so theyre better theyre better with the listening comprehension and you put it all out there I think its a really its a really original idea and its it serves a great uh serves a great need in the community well dudes preciate it and thanks for having me on the show by the way man this this was great and Ive had Ive had a lot of fun I thank I thank all of you for returning to the show youre none of you are rookies youve all been here before its great to have a veteran panel its great to have this combo I had no idea that yall met up beforehand I answer in Dallas or something like that you go thats great thats awesome its a small world out here but hey the best guest in the space we do this show every Friday of course I do a new show every single day here on the bitcoinmeister channel Fridays that this weekend big coin show Saturdays the beyond big coin show so youll see me there very soon im adam meister the bitcoin wishes from maestra members subscribe the channel like this article share this article pound that like button bang that bell button shabbat shalom see you all later saturday baba Zia

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